Glad To Finally Know That This Guy Actually Exists And Isn’t Just Some Random Made Up Demon To Be Filler

Something, something stones and glass houses.

honestly the discourse on this site is so bad that I have a new hot take: if you use tumblr at all fuck you

An abyssal looking shadow seen while throwing out trash at night

TONIGHT!!!

Rather have parts broken than glowing

Gaping side wound will be really big in 2025

Old posts like this remind me that this place was around a long time and things like Twitter going to shit is what brought this site from the background to the limelight.

Tintin remembers what comes after 15.

Very late response, but I thank you.

Didn’t really understand him until reading this, cleared a few things up.

Hello, I am a person interested in folklore. I wanted to ask if you who Assur or Ashur is and what legends he has and if it isn’t too much of an issue, give some good sources on Mesopotamian myth and folklore as I can’t tell what’s real and what’s bullshit.

Probably the best overviews of Ashur’s character are still Wilfred G. Lambert’s short 1983 article The God Aššur and Grant Frame’s My Neighbour's God: Aššur in Babylonia and Marduk in Assyria.  If you can read German, Wiebke Meinhold’s Die Familie des Gottes Aššur is a must read too. The wikipedia article is actually quite in depth too now, a pleasant surprise - it used to be a nightmare.

Long story short, it is generally agreed Ashur started as a divine representation of the namesake city (or perhaps the hill on which it was built) and with time could become essentially whatever its political interests required; so, for instance, when his cult center turned from a city-state into the capital of an empire interested in military expansion, he gained warlike traits. His early character was fairly indistinct, and he had no signature epithets which would point at a specific sphere of influence, though.

While it’s par the course for ancient Mesopotamia to have gods essentially represent the political interests of their cult centers, this is particularly extreme in Ashur’s case because for a solid chunk of his history it’s hard to even speak of him as a personified deity. For example, the Old Assyrian texts from the trading colony Kanesh essentially make it difficult to tell when the god is meant and when the city. Regarding specific cities as numinous, basically divine, locations are not without parallel either, but rarely to such a degree. It’s possible he was initially depicted in art in non-anthropomorphic form, see here for some discussion. However, anthropomorphic depictions might be present on seals too, see here.

As a result of Ashur’s lack of personhood in early sources, he had very few truly distinct associations with other deities to speak of. Basically the only exception is the minor goddess Sherua, but it was already a matter of heated debate in antiquity how they are related to each other. There are also virtually no references to him having parents; no genealogical speculation centered on him ever developed before the emergence of a Neo-Assyrian trend of referring to him as self created (bānû ramānīšu).

The earliest evidence for a gradual shift towards making Ashur into a more standard deity, as opposed to a semi-personified deified city, are probably theophoric names. Additionally, rulers of the city addressed him as a source of their authority and presented themselves essentially as governors acting on his behalf, similarly to what their counterparts in Eshnunna and Der did with Tishpak and Ishtaran, respectively.

Further important developments occurred in the Middle Assyrian period, some 4-5 centuries later. The idea at this time was to essentially pattern Ashur’s character on Enlil. This is attested to various degrees for the heads of many pantheons on the periphery of Mesopotamia, you can read more about other similar cases here. However, in Ashur’s case this process was nowhere near as straightforward as sometimes claimed, as recently stressed by Spencer J. Allen in Aššur and Enlil in Neo-Assyrian Documents. For the most part, the two were effectively separate, even though Ashur did borrow Enlil’s titles, traits and even some of his relatives and servants.

Ashur generally doesn’t appear in myths. The only exception I can think of is that during the reign of Sennacherib there was an attempt to develop a rewrite of the Enuma Elish with Ashur taking Marduk’s role but it’s… well, an incomplete rewrite and nothing more. A pretty incoherent one at that according to Lambert.  Regarding your other question: I have a recommended reading doc linked in my pinned post, you can find it here.

Residents of Proserpina Park is a fun and entertaining edutainment audio drama that teaches listeners about creatures from World Mythology and Folklore. This is my review.

Do you love mythology and folklore? Do you enjoy learning about mythical creatures in a fun and entertaining way? Do you like audio fiction? Well, then allow me to introduce you to @proserpinapark

Residents of Proserpina Park begins with a frame story. It begins with our unarmed narrator listening to some recordings that her brother gave her. They're made by a young woman named Alina, who is investigating rumors of a mysterious secret park, known as Proserpina Park. It's part of an assignment for journalism class. Alina found more than she bargained for. Turns out, Proserpina Park is a sanctuary for all the mythical creatures from across World Mythology and Folklore. Fortunately, she's not exploring the park alone. Alina meets a guy named Sam, who is something of a park resident himself. Each episode sees Alina learn more about the various creatures who call Proserpina Park their home.

I'd argue that, in many ways, Residents of Proserpina Park is an edutainment show. It sets out to tach listeners about different mythological creatures in a fun and entertaining way. Most episodes follow roughly same format; Alina will arrive at the park, meet Sam, and then Sam will tell her about a new creature, and explain the creature's origins and mythological significance. Usually, the recordings end right before Alina and Sam go to actually see the creature in question. Though, later episodes do shake up the format a bit. Alina starts exploring the park on her own, and bringing friends along, something Sam tells her she must never do. Some creatures, particularly the ones with human-level intelligence, do also make on-screen, for lack of a better way of putting it, appearances.

You get familiar creatures such as kappa or the Jersey Devil. However, you also get lesser known and more off the beating path creatures. For example, there’s the Aralez from Armenian Mythology. They're large dogs with feathery wings, and can heal people simply by licking them. There’s also the Bulgae. They're dogs from Korean Mythology who chase the sun and moon across the sky. When one of them bites the sun, it causes an eclipse.

Season 1 was absolutely fantastic. Episodes are typically about eleven or twelve minutes, so season one is easily bingeable. And I would strongly advise you to do so as quickly as possible if you haven't already.

Have to listened to Residents of Proserpina Park? If so, what did you think?

Link to the full review on my blog as always:

https://drakoniandgriffalco.blogspot.com/2021/08/the-audio-file-residents-of-proserpina.html?m=1

Blaze's Compendium Entry #6: Helmet is required to deal with the Muh Shubuu.

Warning: Faith and religion are important real life topics, that tackles the culture and way of life of millions of real life people. It is a cultural expression, and must be respected by all means. Here, we use a video-game series only to ignite the flame of learning about the matter, using its art when well depicted, but we do this with all due respect to the cultures we talk here, grounded by real life sources, cultures and people. And i mean this with respect. Hope you all enjoy.

Moh Shubuu, or Moh Shuvuu is a fantastical creature from the Buryati Folclore, nomadic people from Asia in a region between Siberia and Mongolia. Their are treated like a Mythological bird, that is born when a young girl or young woman dies by violent means, without knowing true love. (This can imply chastity, but it will vary in how explicit it says it). Normally, Moh Shubuu will attack man that she could seduce using her young girl looks, bringing the victim to isolated areas of the desert and killing them with a blow to their head, using their ominous sharp beak. Then she would proceed to suck and consume the brain matter out of the person.... Yikes.

According to sources (as always, will be in the boton) There are other ways for a Moh Shubuu to be born, we will explore those later.

This is one of those legends that, finding a single western source on it is way harder than actually understanding it. Not even Wikipedia is of any help here (That is, if it was of any help, any time). The only real English source i was able to locate was a book: ''Christian Demonology and Popular Mythology, Central European, 2006''. Although this book was a verifiable source, it was not from much help because of the biased view of the tale, from a Christian perspective. Which is not exactly wrong. There's whole fields of theology dedicated to this , but we gotta exercise the Methodological Agnosticism here, which means i can't analyze a culture going from other completely biased point of view, but rather try to see by the eyes of said people considering their time and space, which is also not a easy task by any means.

Moh Shubuu hides her beak with her hands, and sleeves.

The book offers little to no insight about more than what is commonly associated with the Moh Shubuu. The western internet is filled with texts and people talking about this legend, in the way i told above. But the creature name gets a bit confusing. Usually, in the west people call it Moh Shuvuu, but it seems this is a western way of spelling the name, which is actually Moh Shubuu or Moh Shubuun. This means literally somehting like ''Evil Bird'' According to most sources, but i was unable to independent verify this claim. So, take it with a bit of salt. I am sure though, that this could not be so much far away from what it really is.

Going by Muh Shubuun or Moh Shubuu makes it more easier to research it, in Russian the name is spelled like: Муу шубуун. In using this language, there is a good amount of sources going from sites that talk about mythology, to museum pages in general, to books. This did not surprised me, because Buryatia being part of Russian territory for centuries now, and Moh Shubuu being a relatively obscure, and oral folklore, makes it very niche to research indeed. Specially from a culture which is in high danger of disappearing. [2]

But by far, the most complete work in Buryatian culture research i was able to find, comes from a renowned Russian folklorist: Matvey Nikolaevich (1858-1918). His work is extensive and very detailed, he spent his life and career studying and documenting Buryati culture. Matvey was celebrated in his time by his expeditions to Buryati settlements to study their culture, and he was elected in 1888 as a member of the Russian Geographic Society. So much so, that a Museum in Buryatia is named after him, and display many of his belongings and researches there. (Linked source, and Museum)

If you happen to speak Russian, and is interested in learning more about Buryatian Folklore, culture and more i heavily suggests you to read more of Matvey books. As for me, i do not speak Russian, so i am relying in software translations. If you notice anything wrong, please let me know!

I can't go too deep in his work here, because our main goal here is to explore the Muh Shubuu lore. Luckily for us, Matvey catalogued this very tale (along with another multitude of Buryati folklore) in some of his work. Here, i will use as a basis his book:

‘’Хангалов М.Н. Собрание сочинений в 3 т. Т.3. / Под ред. Г.Н.Румянцева.-Улан-Удэ: Изд-во ОАО «Республиканская типография», 2004.- (Reprint)’’

Translated roughly as:

‘’Khangalov M.N. Collected works in 3 vols. T.3. / Ed. G.N. Rumyantsev.-Ulan-Ude: Publishing House of JSC "Republican Printing House", 2004. (Reprint)’’

This work was originally published between 1889 to 1903, in 3 volumes focusing on Buryati Folklore. Sadly, i could not locate this book anywhere on the web, at least not using software translation and all my power to do so, i could not locate a physical copy of easy access for me. But, luckily the book is partially transcribed in many web pages and that's how i guided myself.

So, about the Muh Shubuu!

There are some legends Matvey catalogued about this demon in Buryati folklore, but they vary a bit. This can be because of the nomadic nature of the Buryati people, and how the tale can evolve and change between groups and settlement. But nevertheless, the essence is still the same. Here are some tales that Matvey could comply about the Muh Shubuu:

There is, for instance the tale of a young couple, that went to live in the woods together. Sadly the man dies from illness shortly after, leaving his wife alone and depressed. The woman could not bear the loss of her husband, and was driven into madness. During this time, she decides it is a good idea to consume the dead decaying liver of her late husband. After that, she dies as well.

The woman's soul is back as a Mu Shubuun, because of her terrible act. Still according to this particular legend, this demon can change forms into different types of birds. (like some kind of warebird) But, when she transforms back to her more humanoid form, only the beak will remain. (Some times, this beak is described like her lips) The beak will always be visible, no matter how many times she transforms back.

Another tale tells about a hunter, who was hunting alone in the desert. (or woods, depending on the mood of my translation software) After taking a rest, a young woman approaches him. She starts to kick a conversation, cracking jokes, and getting along with the hunter. He noticed that the woman always tried to hid her lower face with her sleeves, and found it suspicious. He notices this is a Mu Shubuu, and asks her to get logs to the fire he is preparing. She goes, and while she's away, the hunter puts some branches and his stuff into his blanket to give the impression he is sleeping in it.

When the demon returns, she thinks the tired hunter was sleeping already, and she could finally attack. She jumped in the blanked with her beak, stabbing the branches and logs he put inside it, and it got stuck. That's when the hunter shoots the thing down with his gun. After that, he burns the remains in a fire.

This story is particularly interesting, because it involves guns, so it was probably not that old. At least this version, it could have changed with the years, with regular weapons becoming guns, once they were invented and got popular. Or... My translation software got something as an bow and arrow as a gun.

This tale also makes clear that the creature was about to kill the hunter, with her classical ''beak to the head'' and would probably consume his brain matter. But there is evidence Mu Shubuu diet consisted of more than just brains. like the woman in the first tale eating the liver of her husband.

This amazing artwork was made by NATZ they are amazing, and let us use it to illustrate this text. Go check them out! I am a big fan!

In another tale, there is also other person who win in a fight against this demon by getting her stuck in a tree. This seemed to be enough to the creature promise not to bother anyone anymore.

Matvey also complied the information that, some tales described that Mu Shubuu had two ''flints'' with them, usually in their armpits. The right one is a bright red flint, very good looking. The other one is a decayed and rotten tool. The disgusting one is the one to destroy, or take from the creature, because it is linked to her vital forces, it seems. During a fight, Mu Shubuu will try to convince you that the red one is better, but this is a trap. This flint will weaken you instead, making you the easiest prey to this demon.

Buryat knife with a suspension, a tube, a pouch, a flint. Silver, coral, malachite, mahogany, leather, hardened steel, corals, chasing, punching, forging. I dont know, but maybe this legends of a ''flint'' could be referring to the tools here.

There is also the implication that there are male Mu Shubuun as well! According to Matvey there was a tale about a forest where lots of Mu Shubuun inhabited, and they always caused mayhem in the region, attacking and eating people's brains.

One day, a warrior decided to go there, and was (surprise surprise) attacked by a Mu Shubuun. In this story, the flint version was accounted for, and the warrior win the fight taking the ugly looking flint from the demon. But, she ends up fleeing.

The man follows the creature trail up to a well, where he found not only the female Mu Shubuun that attacked him, but a male Mu Shubuun. It was the male that convinced the guy not to harm them, explaining that attacking humans was an habit of the female Mu Shubuun only. As a way to apologize, the couple of demons teach the man how to defend himself from their relatives, using magical phrases. I could not translate them very well using software, but in Russian it goes as:

‘’Хадалан долон - Хадалаевы семеро

Хамнагахи найман - Хамнагановы восьмеро’’

Female and (possible) male Mu Shubuun from the game Blood Brothers. I like this interpretation very much, because of the bloody beak.

This tales are interestng, because they are very small but they manage to convey a lot about this creature, which is sadly not very much available to western sources. It is evident that in Buryatia, this is a relatively known folkloric tale, and in Russia and Eurasia it was spread by books and the internet, much before the demon was explored in the Shin Megami Tensei series.

For instance, the Irkutsk City Museum, in Russia has a page dedicated to Buryati culture, and also shows some Mu Shubuun texts. Irkutsk is not in Buryatia, rather is a bit north, after the Baikal lake that separates Buryatia from the rest of Russia. But it is close enough to have some cultural connections.

(Again, i am not going too deep into the Buryati belief system as a whole. Not only because that's not the foccus here, but because it would need much more research. If you want me to talk about more of this culture in the future, let me know!)

Much is talked about the Buryatian Shamanism when talking about the Buryatian folklore. This was present in Matvey's work, as well in official government sources as the Irkutsk Museum. This Shamanistic culture often deals with lots of problematic spirits. Those are usually translated as bad spirits, ghosts, or even demons. This means our little devil bird girl is not alone in this pantheon. Just to be brief about some other Buryatian mystical creatures:

Ada: A spirit that manifests itself as a small crature with only one eye, and one teeth. Their mouth is on her lower jaw. Can appear as a dog, children or even inflate itself as a balloon. (This one is specifically creepy, and it is also cited by Matvey works)

Anakhai: Also spotted on the before told sources, this is a cyclop-like creature that attacks children.

Ezykhe: A spirit that causes harm to domestic animals. Usually it appears as a decaying old hag, that steals cow's milk. This can cause malnutrition to calfs, and even death of livestock.

The Buryati usually are practitioners of Tengrism. This is a belief system that is sustained by the relationship with the Earth, being protected by it and the ancient spirits. It is interesting that, in some sources the Tengrists believe that the skeleton is sacred, because it stores a part of the Soul. They went as far as to not damage animal bones during sacrificial rituals. So, since Mu Shubuun has to break open the skull to eat its prey's brain, i wonder if it is seen as a even more evil act by them. [sourced by Buryati Religion and Society’ from Lawrence Krader, 1954]

As is the case with any culture, we need to know a bit of the time and place to understand the collective consciousness that give birth to such myths. The Buryatia territory as a place and the way of life of the Buryati people is essential to this mixture. For instance, being nomadic people that relies a lot in livestock and surviving the harsh Eurasian deserts and the SIberian tundra, the worst fears would often be dictated by those essential pillars of their lifes.

A creature that can slowly kill your livestock? A predatory demon that kills you alone in the desert, sucking your brains? Those were real fears. It is hard to dive deeper into Buryati culture in this text, because it is just a crop honestly, but is also very important to remind ourselves that the Buryati are a diverse people, and some behaviors, tales and even words can change from place to place.

There is definitively a lot to learn from their culture, and a lot to preserve. Being endangered to disappear, it is always interesting to spread the word to more people that could study and preserve Buryati history.

If you are interested, i can recommend also the paper ‘’Buryati Religion and Society’ from Lawrence Krader, published originally in 1954. It is not perfect, and it is pretty old, but it is a good start! It is one of the few English sources about Buryatian culture out there.

Mu Shubuun is a very interesting case of a regional folklore making a trip from it's mother culture and ending up appearing in pop culture. Even with UN classifying the Buryati language to be highly in risk to be extinct, this predatory bird devil ended up in games and known in many parts of the world. In SMT for instance, she ranked 9th as the most popular demon in recent years, as well is a recurrent character in almost every franchise release since the 1990s.

Kazuma Kaneko's design is great for me, because it interprets the beak as disguised as the creature hair, or is it hair and just looks like a beak? That is the magic of his take on the creature. I am just curious on how he got to this specific folklore in the first place.

Kaneko took inspiration from Buryati female clothes when designing Mu Shubuun appearance! Very neat. SMT Moh Shubuu lacks the beak, but its hair its styled like a bird's beak, head and wings in a very cool nod to its nature.

It is fascinating to think this happened, but it got me thinking that Mu Shubuun was a product of a culture, and real people that lived by this for centuries. As the warning says in the start of the text, we can use popular media to spark a flame of interest in the matter, but this has to be done with all due respect.

The next paragraphs are based on my personal opinions upon studying this tale extensively. But you feel free to disagree with me, or even correct me!

In my personal belief, Mu Shubuun is one of those Folkloric cautionary tales. Not only not to wander alone in the desert, which could be fatal by very real means, but also that violence against the more vulnerable could have consequences. In the case of Young Woman, this could end up as a Muh shubuu coming to enact her revenge.

Another personal observation of mine: The creature carrying flints reminded me of the old Korean tradition of young virgin woman carrying daggers in her clothes (usually in their arms as well), so they could commit suicide if endangered to be sexually harassed. [1] This could be nothing related, but i thought about it immediately after noticing the flint trope with Moh Shubuu.

As why the bird connection, i really can't say for sure. Probably because raptor birds could be menacingly common, around. But i should study Buryati culture deeper in order to be more accurate about it. End of my personal opinions

Be any reason why this tale survived centuries and ended up here, in the internet, videogames, and other works, is a mystery to me. Maybe the idea of a vengeful spirit taking her grudge on male society is alluring to some, maybe it was because Kazuma Kaneko really did an amazing design, and maybe it is because there is something about regional tales, folklore and beliefs that really fascinate some of us. Some distortions may have occurred in the way, but it is also part of this process. To me, it is important that Buryati traditions and culture can be preserved, and for many, Mu Shubuun is the link to this cosmos. That is a very interesting thing, and i am quite fascinated by it as well.

Thank you for reading up until here!

Sources:

-Matvey, Collected works Volume 3, pages 25 to 26 (reprinted in 2004) - (Хангалов М.Н. Собрание сочинений в 3 т. Т.3. / Под ред. Г.Н.Румянцева.-Улан-Удэ: Изд-во ОАО «Республиканская типография», 2004.- С.25-26’’)

-Irkutsk City Museum

-Buryati Religion And Society, Lawrence Krader 1954. (Sadly paywall...)

[1] - Korean Perceptions of Chastity ceptions of Chastity, Gender Roles, and Libido; F , Gender Roles, and Libido; From Kisaengs to the Twenty First Century (This one is just to back my claim about similarities)

[2]- The troubled state of the Buryati language today, Dulma Batorova