kateweathermachine2

Latest Posts by kateweathermachine2

:333 I knew it

With absolutely no context I wanted to say:

I Told You So

:3

I KNEW IT

I KNEW SHE WAS ALIVE I KNEW SHE WAS ALIVE I KNEW SHE WAS ALIVE I KNEW SHE WAS ALIVE ATHENA MY GIRL YES

In light of recent events with the Ithica Saga stream, I’d like to share this song of encouragement for us all.

Spotify

We'll Be Fine

2024 Wrapped

Jeez I hope this link works the preview keeps showing my wrapped

My mom and I were going to watch the stream together but since it didn’t happen, we started watching the Wisdom Saga stream instead. And when it got to We’ll be Fine, I thought “huh, this is a good message for us right now.” Hope if you see this it gives you some encouragement ❤️ and Happy Holidays!

Finally made that Part 2!!

Maybe one day it won’t take me months to finally post something I’ve promised

My thoughts on the Wisdom Saga

Legendary

TELEMACHUS MY BOY!!!

Honestly most of the stuff I have to say about him deals with the next two songs instead of this one…

Okay, but the more I listen to Antonius the more his voice is just ✨✨✨? Like Calypso’s voice being gorgeous was on SIGHT (on… hear? Heard? Audio?), but Antonius keeps getting better the more I listen to him. Don’t get me wrong he’s a bad dude, but his voice acting? Beautiful

I love the setup in this song, you don’t even notice because it’s so catchy

ARGUS CRUSHED MY HEART IN THE ANIMATIC (like I knew he would) poor dog boi… if Jorge doesn’t have Odysseus say hello to him in a song I will be heartbroken.

Little Wolf

This song… the appearance of Athena in this song brought my prospective ranking of it from likely low to battling it out with Love in Paradise for top spot (I’m STILL not sure which one I like more).

When Athena first appeared in the livestream I (mentally) SCREAMED- MY FAV IS BACK SHE’S BACK AND I LOVE HER (very platonically)

I love the little interlude with her and Telemachus- speaking of which-

I’ve seen some people mention how Telemachus seems much younger than 20/21. Something about the portrayal of Telemachus as this naïve inexperienced child? I’m not sure. But I have my own thoughts to share on this, because as someone who’s close to that young adult age, I think it’s actually pretty accurate for Telemachus’s character. He’s lived in the palace all his life, he’s longing to adventure in the world beyond, but he doesn’t know how to fight… I mean, I don’t specifically relate to Telemachus but I can see aspects of this in my own life. I’ve taken my first baby steps into the big adult world, and it’s intimidating and scary, and I don’t know how anything works, but I’m trying anyways. Point being, I don’t understand how people think that Telemachus has to be younger just because he doesn’t have certain life experiences or knowledge yet. I think it’s a very good portrayal of a young adult being unsure of his coming into the world but excited for it anyways.

Anyways back to ATHENA MY GIRL

I love that we get an in-musical explanation of Quick Thought!! I think it’s really important for a musical to be self-contained with its important lore/information and Jorge does such a great job with that.

Athena’s entire speech about the suitors and bullies and inspiring Telemachus and reframing his “Little Wolf” title CHUCKED THIS SONG SO HIGH IN MY BOOK I need to find a character of mine to associate this part to

The little “ooohhhh, maybe I pushed him a bit to hard” is hilarious

Interesting thing we’re doing with transitions into the next songs with this saga. I do agree with some of the people who said it sounds kind of off in this song; I think it might’ve flowed better if it introduced the next one, but honestly, I’m entirely willing to ignore that because this song is *so* good

We’ll be Fine

I have one glaring complaint about this song…. WHY ISNT IT LONGER?!?! I NEED MORE OF THIS

I can honestly see this becoming a comfort song for me, it holds such great messages to remember

“Cause I got in a fight, and I didn’t die!” The bar is on the FLOOR with Telemachus

The voice actors are rocking their respective high notes! Jorge pushed them and they owned it!!

Speaking of those good encouraging messages- I absolutely adore Telemachus’s chorus. Every time I listen to it, my brain auto-fills the lyrics ahead, and I hear, “maybe it’s all gonna be okay,” but then Telemachus actually sings the verse and it’s “maybe it’s all gonna turn out great!” And that’s just… such a good thing to think about. Yeah, it’s gonna be okay in the end, but what if it was better than okay? What if it turned out to be absolutely amazing?? That’s… such a positive way to view things and I need it more in my life. Of course it could get toxic but for me, it’s a great reminder of how good things can become

Love in Paradise

I read a post that mentioned how the happiest song in the Thunder Saga is called Suffering, and the saddest song in the Wisdom Saga is called Love in Paradise, and I hate how accurate that is T^T

THE TIME DIVE MONTAGE WAS SO GOOOD- such a fun mini mash-up of the rest of the songs! I wish I had more to say about it because I want to keep gushing over it but I’m just gonna end up repeating myself saying it’s so good

The little replay of the “Captain?” “I have to see her” ;-;

WANGUI’S VOCALS— I CAN’T— THEY’RE SO GORGEOUS *unintelligible squealing*

“She’s my wife”

“…”

“…”

“…”

“…”

“…”

“Anyways-“

Her voice is so pretty help I don’t approve of her actions but her VOICE HER VOICE

Can I also just say the animatic/visuals for this section were also gorgeous, such a great compliment to the audio

The way it goes from all sweet and bouncy to “oh ****” and right back to sweet was so good

“Last I checked goddesses can’t die!!” *cue the Wisdom Saga stream crash of 2024*

The cliff scene… oh my goodness it’s so *good* it’s all so *good* Jorge how are you so good at writing

He pays such close attention to characters and motifs and lines too- you can hear how Calypso triggers Odysseus’s flashback.

NOT TO MENTION- when Odysseus yells his line “All I hear are SCREAMS”, it’s in response to Calypso’s line “I’ll stay inside your heart”- which is Odysseus’s mom’s lyric from the underworld!! I literally just noticed the connection between the line and his reaction and I haven’t seen anyone else mention it before so-

And Athena’s little “he needs my help”- aaaaaa we all feel the pain

God Games

Oh *boy howdy* this one is a doozy

The intro is great, I adore Zeus’s voice- this cast is just FULL of talented voice actors man

“… Hera!…. Or me” …. A-wha-huh? I’m sorry didn’t you used to be “and”???

I was intrigued what Apollo’s grievance would be based on the whole “who’s cows” debacle- the sirens kinda threw me off guard xD

His voice is ✨✨✨ though, I love listening to him

JORGE’S DAD HEPHAESTUS!!!!! Aghhh his voice was so good for the part! And I loved the commentary on trust too

Aphrodite’s and Ares’s parts are still amazing even after all this time- I LOVE the details of Ares’s musical motif! He has the same melody as Athena, but played on this raw-sounding violin/cello? And he *also* has quick thought- but it still all feels different from Athena’s too! Because they’re both gods of war but with different domains and attributes AAAA so good!

And Athena’s lyrics in response- I love the re-do and the little extra quirks in it, like the extra growl on “ARES!!!” And the little riff(?) on “his son’s my FRIIIIEND”

Hera’s part was amazing. 100/10. Her voice was a lot… smoother than I was expecting honestly. It took a bit of getting used to but now I love it. And I am HERE for the dance battle

“Never once has he cheated on his wife”

“Release him.”

10/10 ✨✨✨

I was… really excited for an Athena/Zeus debate in this song when listening to all the snippets. I couldn’t wait to see how Athena would try and persuade Zeus, what arguments he would use specifically, how it would all go down… instead I got uh-

“I played your game and won! Release him.”

Oh so, no Zeus round? Ohh this is why it got changed to “or” isn’t it-

“You DARE to defy me?”

Huh-

“To make me feel shame?”

What’s happeni-

“No one beats me, NO ONE WINS MY GAME!!”

Oh boy howdy-

“THUNDER BRING HER THROUGH THE WRINGER, SHOW HER I’M THE JUDGEMENT CALL, THE ONE WHO MAKES HER KINGDOM FAAAAALL—“

I’M SORRY THIS WENT FROM 10 TO 100 SO FAST WHAT IS HAPPENING?!—

Athena in the flashback scene- holding baby Telemachus- the music- my HEART

And the end instrumental is so triumphant aaaaaa

“Let him gooooo! Please-“ JORGE WHEN I GET YOU JORGE—

Uh, so

My thoughts on God Games right after it came out were

Mixed

At first I was so absolutely frazzled from the livestream I could barely put thoughts together outside of incoherent screaming

But then I read a few tumblr posts about how some others were disappointed in how God Games ended and Zeus’s character- and I found myself agreeing :/

I do have a propensity for latching onto different opinions because I think they’re the “expected” one for me to have- and I totally think a bit of that was going on here- so I took some time off of tumblr/limiting my scrolling (which needed to be stopped anyways-) to really sort out how I felt on this

And I think I feel a bit stilted by God Games from its ending. The ending was… underwhelming? Which sounds INSANE considering the end of the stream but it’s underwhelming less because of actual shock factor and more because of what specifically happens versus my expectations.

Zeus just kind of… blasts Athena in the face??? Without provocation?? Athena DID win his game, she passed the terms he set out, she did all of that… and he shocks her anyways. It just. Doesn’t really sit right with me.

But I love Epic, and want to enjoy every song I come across, and I REALLY didn’t want this view of the ending of God Games to taint the rest of the song or the rest of the musical. So in my next big post, I’m going to do a mini “rewrite”/reworking of God Games that I’ve been toying around with in my mind for a little while now!!

I’ll explain more about why and what and the details in that post but for now, just know that it’s been a helpful exercise in enjoying God Games as it is too, and I’ll get to posting that the next time school isn’t absolutely crushing me with long homework assignments

Anyways, those are my kinda-in-depth thoughts about the Wisdom Saga!! I’ve been so excited to write this out and I’m happy to be posting it finally

Thoughts on God Games

Don’t mind this post being on Wisdom when Vengeance already came out school is a lot okay-

So in a previous post, I mentioned how I was a little disappointed by the end of God Games. It came down to a combination of my expectations for the Zeus “round” versus the reality and some (well thought out) posts I read in my frazzled I-survived-the-wisdom-saga-livestream state critiquing Zeus’s character in Epic. I’m not going to go into more details than that for now.

While I was grappling with how I felt about God Games and how that impacted my thoughts on the Wisdom Saga and Epic as a whole, I started thinking about what I would have done differently, or what I would’ve liked to have seen done differently, in God Games. And this exercise turned out to be pretty fun and helped me with my thoughts and feelings about the actual God Games. So I decided to share some of my thoughts with you!!

So for my thought-scenario, I wanted to change God Games, but not drastically. I didn’t want to change any gods in the games or even alter how it ends. I just wanted to figure out how to tweak it just right. And I think I figured out the key: more time!

God Games is long by Epic song standards- at 5:19, it’s the longest song in the musical so far! And there’s one small word in the published song that’s distinctly different from the drafts Jay’s posted- Zeus’s “and me” versus “or me”. I have a small theory that there was originally going to be more to the song, that Zeus was going to be the final round instead of Hera. But that part likely got scrapped due to how long the song was/could’ve gotten. But hEY, THAT’S JUST A THEORY; A MUSICAL TH- I’m sorry I’ll go see myself out

So for my little re-imagine, the primary thing I’m doing is leaning *into* the length of the song! Make it longer! Honestly I was expecting more of an 8 minute song here and I’m impressed by Jorge’s ability to condense it all but still make it easily follow-able.

First change we’re making- turn that “or” back into “and”! There’s no choose whom to convince situation here, Zeus is clearly the final round.

Moving swiftly forward to Apollo and Hephaestus! Both of these verses are great on their own, but for this I’m thinking we extend them by just a couple extra lines.

Perhaps Apollo doesn’t need more convincing, but he says an extra quip towards Athena to sort of pay homage to the Odyssey, where he’s also watching over Odysseus (I think, I’m not a Greek mythology or Homer expert). Something like…

Apollo: “You’re not the only one who’s watched over him” ;)

Athena: “… Thank you.”

Apollo: “Release him!”

Or something similar. Hephaestus, now, I don’t have any specific ideas on how to make his verse longer, but I’d just add a couple other back-and-forth lines before he says to release Odysseus.

Aphrodite and Ares were perfect. They were great, I love them. Athena could potentially have an extra line towards Aphrodite about how, even though he missed his mother’s passing, if he’s released he won’t waste another second to get home to the rest of his family he loves. Not entirely sure how to condense that into a witty verse, but there ya go 😅

Hera!!! Hera’s… is perfect. I can’t see any good way to stretch it out, and I love how succinct it is. So leave that verse 100% as-is.

Now for the big one- Zeus! In this version of God Games, Zeus is the final round, so Athena hasn’t won yet. The verse even starts with Zeus instead of Athena. I’d pay homage to the original Odyssey again here, and have Zeus ask Athena why she desires to go against the fates, which is what ultimately landed Odysseus on Calypso’s island in the first place (by spiting Poseidon’s son and the cattle incident, even though it wasn’t Odysseus who killed the cow in the first place) (once again, not an expert, I’ve read this part of the Odyssey only once, so I could be forgetting/misremembering some details).

Athena may reply with something like “he’s paid his fair due, he deserves to go back home”, and also challenges(?) fate as to leaving Odysseus on Calypso’s island for such a long time. Athena’s and Zeus’s lines in this part are longer than most of the other gods’ lines in their verses.

Alternatively, instead of saying “fate” is what led Odysseus to the island, it’s Zeus’s divine punishment to Odysseus for the mistakes he’s made on the voyage home, and for the cyclops and cow and all the crew who died. In this case, Athena is (in)directly challenging Zeus’s authority on the matter. Maybe there’s another couple lines back and forth here, but it winds up to Athena directly calling Zeus out for Odysseus’s pain and demanding that Zeus release him as he’s suffered enough. And *thiiis* is what sets Zeus off.

I imagine his lines here are pretty similar to the ones he actually sings, but tweaked (obviously) to fit this new situation. Something like

“You dare to defy me?! To make me feel shame?! Your foolish pride is what will make you LOSE MY GAME”

I’m not entirely sure on the pride line, I know there’s something in Greek Mythos about pride/hubris being a solely *human* thing, something that the gods just don’t have problems with? But on the other hand, to Zeus this is Athena rising above her place and defying his authority, something he needs to put out right *now*. What would it be if not some sort of pride? (Obviously it stems more from Athena’s friendship with/care for Odysseus but that’s not gonna factor into Zeus’s perspective)

And from here on, the rest of the song goes as it was. Thunder bringer, the flashback, Athena standing her ground, and her making her final plea to Zeus.

And those were my thoughts on how I would expand God Games and fit a whole round with Zeus in it! I had a lot of fun coming up with this reimagining, and it’s actually helped me enjoy the God Games we got more too! I’m always blown away by how musically Epic(TM) the songs are every time I listen to them and the voice acting is absolutely phenomenal. Maybe God Games didn’t go the way I originally expected it to go but it’s a great piece of work, and I like seeing the depths of character Jorge’s able to convey in each song- even with Zeus!

And the biggest moral of the story for me is to not browse tumblr until my brain breaks the morning after a saga livestream. Good lessons, good lessons.

If you’ve made it this far I hope you enjoyed my God Game ramblings and could see a little bit of my vision with expanding the length of the song!

Also no Athena’s not dead, it’s not denial, it’s called foreshadowing with Calypso’s line and the fact that Athena doesn’t even get *close* to death in the Odyssey- I know Epic’s a loose adaptation but there’s no way Jay would deviate *that* much and kill her off, if Athena’s actually dead I’m gonna flip out probably I’m going to be *so* upset—

So uhh. If you feel like talking about it. As someone who lives in the US, how are you being kind to yourself on this upsetting morning <3

Checked in with my loved ones first and foremost.

It's interesting. The vibe I've been getting from my circle is very different from 2016. Much less… dread and horror at a realignment of the understanding of what can and can't happen here, now, in this place and day and age. More "fuck, guys. again? whatever. enjoy your consequences, maybe you'll manage to learn something this time."

Frustration and anger is not the most positive feeling, or even the most fair one to express, but it is a protective one. It hurts a lot less than most alternatives.

And it's quite a shift. It was earthshattering back then. How could this have been allowed to happen? Why couldn't it be stopped? Why couldn't we stop it? Why couldn't I stop it? Why couldn't everyone see what this meant? Why couldn't I make them understand? Did they really not care? What did that mean about humanity as a whole? Were we so thoughtless? How could anyone be trusted?

It seems… much less earthshattering to see it happen twice. Disappointing, sure. Frustrating. But nowhere near as devastating as the first time I saw it unfold. We already knew it could happen. I've already had time to digest the implications. Now I'm just freshly disappointed.

It also feels less indicative of Crushing Truths Of Reality this time. We've seen shit get bad. We've also seen shit get better from here! We know both outcomes are possible, even inevitable. We know hoping for a better future is always worthwhile. This isn't the apocalypse. It's an unremarkably bad turn of events brought on by unremarkably self-centered well-documented human impulses. It's utterly mundane in its unpleasantness. It doesn't need to be dignified with despair.

A democratic election, no matter the outcome or the side we're on, makes us all acutely aware of how outnumbered we are by people whose worldviews and priorities are demonstrably incomprehensible to us. And the first time you get outnumbered, it's a shock. Defeat is haunting. It didn't matter how badly you wanted it; by the very function of democracy, you do not have the power to override greater numbers. (insert electoral college caveat here)

The second time through, I find myself focusing on a different facet that has dramatically reduced the amount of spiralling I'm doing. I don't expect this to work for everyone, but for me specifically, it helped to crystallize a few thoughts:

You don't have the power to control anyone else. You don't. You can't share your worldview and your revelations with them. You can't make them think or understand anything. You can lay it all out for them, but you can't make them listen, and you can't make it click. A mentor can't make their student learn a lesson; that's why teaching is so complicated and hard. An active choice must be made by the person to enable themselves to understand, and they must put the pieces together in their own mind before it makes sense to them, and the pieces must have been presented in a way that makes sense to them in the first place. Lead a horse to water, can't make them drink.

These elections highlight a disconnect in what different groups of people care about; and no matter how clearly you explain yourself or how passionately you perform, caring cannot be forced on someone. Understanding and connection cannot be forced. You cannot make anything or anyone matter to someone. They have to choose to see how it matters in order to internalize it. If they choose not to, that is not your failing. You couldn't have made them do it by just Explaining Better. They are not your responsibility. They make their own choices. You can't reach inside their head and connect the dots for them.

I'm a storyteller. I make stories and put them out into the world. I hope people get something good out of them, but I have no control over what that something is. I want people to be thoughtful and kind and compassionate and hopeful and see themselves reflected in stranges, no matter their differences. I can craft stories that I hope encourage this. But that is the extent of my ability and the extent of my responsibility. I control no-one's actions but my own, and so while I am not having the best day, I am at least content that I am doing what I can, and I am not shattering myself against impossibilities trying to control the things I can't.

Sometimes, people make decisions that I think are really bad. I can't make that not happen. All I can do is try to make decisions that will result in things I think are good. Today, that means checking in on people, and not assigning too much dramatic narrative weight to an ultimately mundane set of unremarkable bad decisions outside of my control. We'll take life as it comes and help each other out when and how we can. Everything else is out of our hands.

SIX HUNDRED STRIKE WENT IN A DIRECTION I WAS NOT EXPECTING WHAT okay I’ll be back in a few days after I process

This is beautiful

I feel like there's something there. like I'm onto something. please fill this in

My thoughts on the Wisdom Saga

Legendary

TELEMACHUS MY BOY!!!

Honestly most of the stuff I have to say about him deals with the next two songs instead of this one…

Okay, but the more I listen to Antonius the more his voice is just ✨✨✨? Like Calypso’s voice being gorgeous was on SIGHT (on… hear? Heard? Audio?), but Antonius keeps getting better the more I listen to him. Don’t get me wrong he’s a bad dude, but his voice acting? Beautiful

I love the setup in this song, you don’t even notice because it’s so catchy

ARGUS CRUSHED MY HEART IN THE ANIMATIC (like I knew he would) poor dog boi… if Jorge doesn’t have Odysseus say hello to him in a song I will be heartbroken.

Little Wolf

This song… the appearance of Athena in this song brought my prospective ranking of it from likely low to battling it out with Love in Paradise for top spot (I’m STILL not sure which one I like more).

When Athena first appeared in the livestream I (mentally) SCREAMED- MY FAV IS BACK SHE’S BACK AND I LOVE HER (very platonically)

I love the little interlude with her and Telemachus- speaking of which-

I’ve seen some people mention how Telemachus seems much younger than 20/21. Something about the portrayal of Telemachus as this naïve inexperienced child? I’m not sure. But I have my own thoughts to share on this, because as someone who’s close to that young adult age, I think it’s actually pretty accurate for Telemachus’s character. He’s lived in the palace all his life, he’s longing to adventure in the world beyond, but he doesn’t know how to fight… I mean, I don’t specifically relate to Telemachus but I can see aspects of this in my own life. I’ve taken my first baby steps into the big adult world, and it’s intimidating and scary, and I don’t know how anything works, but I’m trying anyways. Point being, I don’t understand how people think that Telemachus has to be younger just because he doesn’t have certain life experiences or knowledge yet. I think it’s a very good portrayal of a young adult being unsure of his coming into the world but excited for it anyways.

Anyways back to ATHENA MY GIRL

I love that we get an in-musical explanation of Quick Thought!! I think it’s really important for a musical to be self-contained with its important lore/information and Jorge does such a great job with that.

Athena’s entire speech about the suitors and bullies and inspiring Telemachus and reframing his “Little Wolf” title CHUCKED THIS SONG SO HIGH IN MY BOOK I need to find a character of mine to associate this part to

The little “ooohhhh, maybe I pushed him a bit to hard” is hilarious

Interesting thing we’re doing with transitions into the next songs with this saga. I do agree with some of the people who said it sounds kind of off in this song; I think it might’ve flowed better if it introduced the next one, but honestly, I’m entirely willing to ignore that because this song is *so* good

We’ll be Fine

I have one glaring complaint about this song…. WHY ISNT IT LONGER?!?! I NEED MORE OF THIS

I can honestly see this becoming a comfort song for me, it holds such great messages to remember

“Cause I got in a fight, and I didn’t die!” The bar is on the FLOOR with Telemachus

The voice actors are rocking their respective high notes! Jorge pushed them and they owned it!!

Speaking of those good encouraging messages- I absolutely adore Telemachus’s chorus. Every time I listen to it, my brain auto-fills the lyrics ahead, and I hear, “maybe it’s all gonna be okay,” but then Telemachus actually sings the verse and it’s “maybe it’s all gonna turn out great!” And that’s just… such a good thing to think about. Yeah, it’s gonna be okay in the end, but what if it was better than okay? What if it turned out to be absolutely amazing?? That’s… such a positive way to view things and I need it more in my life. Of course it could get toxic but for me, it’s a great reminder of how good things can become

Love in Paradise

I read a post that mentioned how the happiest song in the Thunder Saga is called Suffering, and the saddest song in the Wisdom Saga is called Love in Paradise, and I hate how accurate that is T^T

THE TIME DIVE MONTAGE WAS SO GOOOD- such a fun mini mash-up of the rest of the songs! I wish I had more to say about it because I want to keep gushing over it but I’m just gonna end up repeating myself saying it’s so good

The little replay of the “Captain?” “I have to see her” ;-;

WANGUI’S VOCALS— I CAN’T— THEY’RE SO GORGEOUS *unintelligible squealing*

“She’s my wife”

“…”

“…”

“…”

“…”

“…”

“Anyways-“

Her voice is so pretty help I don’t approve of her actions but her VOICE HER VOICE

Can I also just say the animatic/visuals for this section were also gorgeous, such a great compliment to the audio

The way it goes from all sweet and bouncy to “oh ****” and right back to sweet was so good

“Last I checked goddesses can’t die!!” *cue the Wisdom Saga stream crash of 2024*

The cliff scene… oh my goodness it’s so *good* it’s all so *good* Jorge how are you so good at writing

He pays such close attention to characters and motifs and lines too- you can hear how Calypso triggers Odysseus’s flashback.

NOT TO MENTION- when Odysseus yells his line “All I hear are SCREAMS”, it’s in response to Calypso’s line “I’ll stay inside your heart”- which is Odysseus’s mom’s lyric from the underworld!! I literally just noticed the connection between the line and his reaction and I haven’t seen anyone else mention it before so-

And Athena’s little “he needs my help”- aaaaaa we all feel the pain

God Games

Oh *boy howdy* this one is a doozy

The intro is great, I adore Zeus’s voice- this cast is just FULL of talented voice actors man

“… Hera!…. Or me” …. A-wha-huh? I’m sorry didn’t you used to be “and”???

I was intrigued what Apollo’s grievance would be based on the whole “who’s cows” debacle- the sirens kinda threw me off guard xD

His voice is ✨✨✨ though, I love listening to him

JORGE’S DAD HEPHAESTUS!!!!! Aghhh his voice was so good for the part! And I loved the commentary on trust too

Aphrodite’s and Ares’s parts are still amazing even after all this time- I LOVE the details of Ares’s musical motif! He has the same melody as Athena, but played on this raw-sounding violin/cello? And he *also* has quick thought- but it still all feels different from Athena’s too! Because they’re both gods of war but with different domains and attributes AAAA so good!

And Athena’s lyrics in response- I love the re-do and the little extra quirks in it, like the extra growl on “ARES!!!” And the little riff(?) on “his son’s my FRIIIIEND”

Hera’s part was amazing. 100/10. Her voice was a lot… smoother than I was expecting honestly. It took a bit of getting used to but now I love it. And I am HERE for the dance battle

“Never once has he cheated on his wife”

“Release him.”

10/10 ✨✨✨

I was… really excited for an Athena/Zeus debate in this song when listening to all the snippets. I couldn’t wait to see how Athena would try and persuade Zeus, what arguments he would use specifically, how it would all go down… instead I got uh-

“I played your game and won! Release him.”

Oh so, no Zeus round? Ohh this is why it got changed to “or” isn’t it-

“You DARE to defy me?”

Huh-

“To make me feel shame?”

What’s happeni-

“No one beats me, NO ONE WINS MY GAME!!”

Oh boy howdy-

“THUNDER BRING HER THROUGH THE WRINGER, SHOW HER I’M THE JUDGEMENT CALL, THE ONE WHO MAKES HER KINGDOM FAAAAALL—“

I’M SORRY THIS WENT FROM 10 TO 100 SO FAST WHAT IS HAPPENING?!—

Athena in the flashback scene- holding baby Telemachus- the music- my HEART

And the end instrumental is so triumphant aaaaaa

“Let him gooooo! Please-“ JORGE WHEN I GET YOU JORGE—

Uh, so

My thoughts on God Games right after it came out were

Mixed

At first I was so absolutely frazzled from the livestream I could barely put thoughts together outside of incoherent screaming

But then I read a few tumblr posts about how some others were disappointed in how God Games ended and Zeus’s character- and I found myself agreeing :/

I do have a propensity for latching onto different opinions because I think they’re the “expected” one for me to have- and I totally think a bit of that was going on here- so I took some time off of tumblr/limiting my scrolling (which needed to be stopped anyways-) to really sort out how I felt on this

And I think I feel a bit stilted by God Games from its ending. The ending was… underwhelming? Which sounds INSANE considering the end of the stream but it’s underwhelming less because of actual shock factor and more because of what specifically happens versus my expectations.

Zeus just kind of… blasts Athena in the face??? Without provocation?? Athena DID win his game, she passed the terms he set out, she did all of that… and he shocks her anyways. It just. Doesn’t really sit right with me.

But I love Epic, and want to enjoy every song I come across, and I REALLY didn’t want this view of the ending of God Games to taint the rest of the song or the rest of the musical. So in my next big post, I’m going to do a mini “rewrite”/reworking of God Games that I’ve been toying around with in my mind for a little while now!!

I’ll explain more about why and what and the details in that post but for now, just know that it’s been a helpful exercise in enjoying God Games as it is too, and I’ll get to posting that the next time school isn’t absolutely crushing me with long homework assignments

Anyways, those are my kinda-in-depth thoughts about the Wisdom Saga!! I’ve been so excited to write this out and I’m happy to be posting it finally

AAAAAA IT’S SO BEAUTIFUL

I’ve been waiting for this song to be released for so long! And now, my take on it is finally here!

Me: *listening to Love In Paradise in the car*

Calypso: “Oh handsome, you may try~ but last I checked, goddesses can’t die!”

Me: *turns car off* “Are you sure about that Calypso” >:3

GUYS ITS FINALLY CONFIRMED

WAIT HOLD ON is that Circe’s motif at around 1:48 of suffering? When “Penelope” is talking about Scylla?

I can’t really tell, but if it is, oh my gosh!! That would be amazing and add yet another layer to the song! After all, in several versions of myth Circe was the one to transform Scylla into what she is now!! That would be a really neat Easter egg if it was-

If you set your EPIC playlist in homeric order:

1-4 of the Wisdom Saga

↓

Horse and Infant - Thunderbringer

↓

God Games

Guys, it does things.

It emphasizes the Problem and not the Man, creates new tensions and makes every crack in Odysseus's sanity since the Infant, feel heavier. It introduces the videogame vibes earlier and also how Athena's time stopping works.

On the con side, it's a little less thrilling when everything is a flashback.

Yes I'm aware I'm saying something very obvious, changing the order in a narrative changes the narrative. But, what a fun exercise. 10/10 will do again.

...........

EDIT

I’m so happy there are so many people on board! I hope you enjoy the experiment. So, just in case you get lost,  I guess I’ll expand on my vision (you’ll probably have more ideas, though):

We start on Ithaca, Telemachus, and the suitors. We meet Athena, we’re introduced to the time stop and the video game fights. We learn she regrets breaking her friendship to someone. Then, we learn this someone is Odysseus and we get BIG EPIC INTRO TIME through Athena’s mind travel (if you've seen the Phantom of the Opera, kind of like the chandelier intro moment). And now Odysseus is suicidal and we have all these voices that will make sense further in the musical. So, what’s the tea?

Ok, now we’d need to imagine some kind of transition, but. Off to The Horse and The Infant we go. And now there’s a noticeable difference between the enthusiastic Odysseus that was back then and what he is now. And how cold Athena was. And it’s kind of a punch to the gut. And then things get worse and worse. And then God Games.

And then we would be free to go forward with the story. Ta-da!   

EDIT 2

Telemachus introducing the Monster theme in the conventional, fantastic way, and then the Actual Monster development of Odysseus? Arghh

“My brain is rotting from the Wisdom Saga” has got to be some sort of paradox hasn’t it

HOW DID I NOT KNOW UNTIL NOW (in the MIDDLE of the Wisdom Saga stream) THAT IT WAS STRATEGIES AND NOT TRAGEDIES

AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO THOUGHT THAT

I’m 12 years late to it but let’s ramble about Scylla

Of course it took the Wisdom Saga nearly dropping for me to finally finish this

This may be a collective organized rant or it’s (more likely) gonna be a super-ramble nonsense jumble pile of me trying to words

A bit of background- I got into Epic right around the time the Ocean Saga released; I quickly got obsessed (as one does) and have watched a bunch of Jorge’s older shorts on the making of different songs, including just about everything I could find on Scylla’s song. I was enamored by the vocals Jorge teased us with and as the Thunder Saga drew nearer, Scylla was hands-down the song I was most hyped for.

And BY GOLLY I WAS NOT DISAPPOINTED. I was blown away by Scylla on the livestream. Everything- the vocals, the instrumentals, the visuals- came together beautifully and I’m gonna ramble about it

But to really see Odysseus through this we gotta start with Suffering (which is an absolute bop); specifically when the siren tells Odysseus about Scylla. When she first says Scylla, Odysseus is repellent of that option, judging by his immediate “no”. He isn’t immediately on board. He doesn’t want to sacrifice his crew. And (even though we all knew this was coming) it takes the rest of Suffering and Different Beast before we finally see that he’s willing to go through with it in the opening of Scylla (what with him saying “this is our only way home” and all that).

Parts of Scylla sound like a waltz!! I haven’t noticed anyone else mention that yet. Maybe it’s just me. But in the first section during the “deep down”s and Ody/Eury dialogue the chords all sound waltz-y to me.

Odysseus only has a few lines in this song as well as some interesting parts when he doesn’t speak.

His very first lines- “the lair of Scylla… this is our only way home” aren’t in the same harsh tone as Different Beast. To me it sounds like he’s trying to justify his decision to himself. He has to go through with this. It’s the only way that he’ll get back to Ithica.

Contrast this with his tone as he speaks to Eurylochus- “not much to say”. It’s back to being rough and hard. He’s closing himself off to the rest of his crew, including Eurylochus. He’s becoming the monster to them. (Rawr rawr rawr)

The confession scene- THE CONFESSION SCENE MY GOODNESS. Honestly I wasn’t exactly expecting Eurylochus to have opened the bag but I’m not surprised either. It was a very “ahhh” moment for me. And Scylla’s words-

I’ve seen a few posts talking about how they believed Scylla’s words were directed to Eurylochus in this scene, but I never thought that was the case. I think Jay deliberately created the parallel there, but Eurylochus doesn’t seem like he’s *hearing* Scylla yet. (Remember- later on, he says “something approaches” as if that’s the first he’s seeing/hearing of Scylla.) No, these lyrics are meant for Odysseus, and what he’s about to do. Not to say there isn’t any relevance to Eurylochus here- “you hide a reason for shame … leaving them feeling betrayed / breaking the bonds that you’ve made” alternate with Eurylochus’s apology, as they shed light on what Eurylochus *had* done as well as what Odysseus was *going* to do. There is a strong parallel here- but it’s not Eurylochus Scylla is talking to. (This is also supported by the lyrics “you know that we are the same” and “we both know what it takes to survive”, neither of which have much relevance to Eurylochus here.) The lyric “you know that we are the same” is an interesting one, but I’ll get back to it later.

So Odysseus basically ghosts Eurylochus- and yes he’s probably furious about the wind bag incident but I think another reason for his silence is because he’s been hearing Scylla. Odysseus can’t forgive nor blame Eurylochus because he’s about to betray Eurylochus right back. Maybe he just can’t face speaking to Eurylochus with what he’s about to do.

Did anyone else at this point realize the sole purpose of the song “Full Speed Ahead” was for nothing more than to create a motif to be used absolutely everywhere

Then we get to Odysseus’s first words to Eurylochus! When first listening I could feel my heart dropping, as did likely everyone else who knew about Scylla from the Odyssey. But the DELIVERY. The simple DELIVERY of those CONDEMNING LINES- Eurylochus doesn’t even react to this order. This is really how you know that he- and the rest of the crew- don’t know where they’re headed. (I’ve seen plenty of people talk about Eurylochus’s thoughts during this scene and afterward so I’m not gonna tread over that same ground.) All I can say is my heart sank.

Did anyone else think about the lack of a “danger is near” motif in this song? I’ve heard a possible modified version in the song (1:14 if anyone wants to listen for it), but it doesn’t fully fit, and nowhere else is a hint of this theme shown. And there’s clearly about to be danger in this song- for six of Odysseus’s crew, that is. I think the reason we can’t hear a “danger is near” motif in this song because there isn’t a danger for Odysseus, and that’s who the danger is near motif is for. After all, the motif was present in “Mutiny”, right *after* they got through the danger of Scylla. Just another something cool I’ve found that I haven’t seen anyone else comment on before.

“Captain, something approaches”

“Hello.”

The DRUMS ON EACH BEAT, the VIOLIN RUNS, all with the background SHEPARD TONES falling and then rising, the SUSPENSE- THE ***SUSPENSE***

Before Scylla came out, I repeatedly watched the Scylla audition call video Jay put out, and from that I had the thought that the buildup section would be much shorter. Boy was that not the case and boy was that such a good decision the more I think about it. You really feel the suspense gradually build like it does for the crew, first seeing the vague shapes of Scylla and slowly having more and more revealed in the torchlight before the heads pounce.

Not to mention Scylla’s voice actor is amazing. She does a wonderful job of the smooth, almost angelic voice at the beginning and end, but in the chorus?! Jay’s videos on it didn’t do this justice! The MONSTROUS way she growls, the HARMONIES that come in in the second chorus- not to mention the crazy drums and other music in the background adding to the chaos.

And in the background you can *hear* when each man is scooped up, when each man is being devoured. Once again you’re right there with the crew, hearing your fellow friends get eaten. It’s not something I would expect to hear in the official song when their deaths aren’t the main focus during the chorus (the main focus being Scylla herself), but props to Jay for adding that detail.

One thing I noticed in the amazing animatic done for this section that I haven’t noticed many people specifically point out yet, is how Eurylochus doesn’t seem to catch on it’s the torches that are signaling to Scylla which men to eat until *after* he passes his own on. You can see it in the horror on his face as he looks at the second-to-last torch drop, then as he turns to the final man, the man he’d given his torch to (as he presumably went to try and help someone else from getting eaten? That’s how I interpret him leaving the torch with the final guy, like a “I need both hands for this” kind of thing).

Then the END- after the rampage- the final “We must do what it takes to survive”- it quiets down, the waltzy pattern comes back out, and the final line- “We are the same, you and I”

Back to that previous lyric I mentioned, “you know that we are the same”. Near the beginning of the song when I heard it, the lyric recalled to my mind that villain trope of “we’re not so different” (I think that’s a trope). And here at the end of the song that sentiment is repeated- and Odysseus SINGS WIRH HER. He AGREES. Up until now Odysseus hasn’t acknowledged Scylla talking to him, but here he’s given into the thought that yes, now he *is* the monster - to both his enemies *and* his crew. (Rawr rawr rawr)

And that’s how Scylla’s become one of my absolute favorite songs from Epic

imagine jorge rivera-herrans on tumblr. imagine the shitposting. imagine if he could see all the crazy stuff we post on here. imagine him reblogging the cool art and overall just uplifting our community. imagine him answering our craziest asks. jorge rivera-herrans should totally get tumblr

NOOO YOU’RE GONNA MAKE ME CRY

Are Penelope, Telemachus and Laertes in the band AU

yeah of course they are!

My favorite Disney princess is mister jalapeño anyway

Here are mine! Mostly the same 😂

And a bonus mention of Suffering; I enjoy going back and forth between that and Scylla a bunch.

Every Saga has that One Song

The one that you listen to more than the others. The one that you played on repeat when you heard it for the first time. What were those songs for you? These are mine:

Welp I’ve got a new response to people who drive me crazy

....i haven't heard of this until now

But honestly-............I don't Trend to support violence but this is funny- right?

OH MY GOD THIS FANDOM IS GOING TO BE THE DEATH OF MEEE HAHHAHAHA

10/10 this is impeccable I will start saying it so much you will all hate me for it kaksnnsnsb what else can I do ??? It's too good

I like to imagine that in Different Beast, while the men are singing they all think they’re in sync. But they’re not, like at all, they’re super unsynchronized actually. The only reason they are synchronized in the song itself is because that’s how they think they sound, but in reality their singing is so off you can barely make out what they’re saying

And meanwhile the sirens are cringing so hard hearing the crew sing. Like this is torture for them fr.

I’M WORKING ON IT, I SWEAR—

I keep hearing Thinder Bringer this and Thunder Bringer that but nothing about the BEST SONG IN THIS SAGA, Scylla. Legitimately, let's get some more people talking about Scylla because they killed it on this one.

this is advice I've given friends directly before and I've probably also posted it but I really like giving it so here it is potentially again: do not create something for an imaginary bad faith reader.

there will always be someone who finds fault in your work. there will be people who read the messages on it wrong. there will be people who will take every compelling aspect about your work off of it so they can put in their own.

you cannot make art for these people.

you will never write a story that is free from criticism. you will never draw a piece that everyone finds appealing. you will never compose a song that everyone enjoys hearing. you cannot, fundamentally, set out to create something and only think of how you can avoid someone not liking it.

because, and this is key, there will be someone who sees every angle of your story and feels its intent in their heart and gushes to their friends about it. you will draw someone's favorite art and they will make it their phone wallpaper because they want to see it every day. someone will fall in love with your song and loop it on their way to work because it gets them through the day. and THOSE are the people your work is for. THOSE are the people you have to care about, because they love what you make for what it is - because it's itself.

if you set out to create something and file off every sharp edge, prune every thorn, you will be left with something fragile and weak, and it will be fragile and weak for the sake of someone who does not exist but that you were scared of anyway.

sharing art is complex and tangled and powerful, and anything you care enough to create deserves to flourish as itself. get sillay.

"average greek pisses off 3 gods and demigods a year" factoid is actually just statistical error. average greek pisses off 0 gods and demigods per year. Odysseus of Ithaca, who is just going home & making a mortal enemy of yet another olympian each day, is an outlier and should not have been counted

No no, I think it *is*, the notes might be a little different but it’s *definitely* there. I didn’t know about the Circe turning Scylla before this post (this is definitely making me want to brush up on my Greek mythology) but OH MY GOODNESS GRACIOUS HOW IS THIS MAN SO GOOD AT FITTING MOTIFS LIKE THIS INTO EVERY CORNER OF EVERY SONG— there’s just so many wonderful Easter eggs to find in this musical and I am LOVING IT

WAIT HOLD ON is that Circe’s motif at around 1:48 of suffering? When “Penelope” is talking about Scylla?

I can’t really tell, but if it is, oh my gosh!! That would be amazing and add yet another layer to the song! After all, in several versions of myth Circe was the one to transform Scylla into what she is now!! That would be a really neat Easter egg if it was-

I need to go to sleep but someone remind me to ramble about Scylla for 20 hours tomorrow

IM NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO NOTICED—

The way that in the remastered version of Warrior of the Mind you can tell the “enlighten me what’s your name” is stressed, because so many people heard it as “you lied to me” in the first version-

I think we all need a little reminder of this every day

Hey you know that thing you're good at? That thing you think makes you valuable? The way you are, or the thing you do, etc?

You can be and deserve to be and will be loved and cherished even without it.

You're not worthwhile because you help, or you are good at making your art, or your skills at your job. You're worthwhile inherently, as a person, even without all that.

And I want you to internalize that because otherwise there might come a day where you can't do The Thing You Think Makes You Valuable. You'll get sick and can't draw, you'll burn out and can't do your job, you'll be emotionally unable to do your regular helpfulness for whatever reason, and you'll start to feel like you have no worth anymore.

But that's not true. You have worth, you deserve comfort and companionship and happiness, and that's not a conditional thing. You deserve that, even if you can't be Useful and Productive and all that shit.

It's an easy trap to fall into to justify yourself as "well, at least I help/make art/work hard" and have that be entirely too much of your self-esteem. Being proud of your work is fine. Being proud of yourself solely through your productivity is not, because you're making it conditional. And conditional on something that can change for reasons completely outside your control!

You gotta stop thinking about it like you gotta justify the space you take up on the planet. It's great if all those things make you happy: just make sure they're not the only things that make you feel like you are justifying your existence, or you'll crater if they get taken away.

You are lovable and likable and you have value as a person and a member of society, even if you never can be productive again. You are enough.

white people go like “is anyone going to redesign this nonhuman evil character as a poc?” and not wait for an answer